Friday, February 8, 2013 – 09:30 a.m.
The Southern California manhunt for former LAPD Officer and murder suspect Christopher Dorner is taking its share of twists and turns Friday morning.
So far it’s Dorner that has police agencies running at a feverish pace.
One observation. If Dorner is as intelligent as its being led to believe, there’s a good chance he isn’t even in or near Big Bear Lake or the Mountains for that matter.
Unless he drove to the mountains Thursday morning just to burn his pickup truck and hang out for a while.
It’s highly plausible the Dorner move was a distraction, and he’s stalking his targets in the Los Angeles area. Dorner is clearly capable and of the mindset to carjack another vehicle and travel back to the Valley after torching his vehicle.
It’s clear this is an angry man with scores to settle.
San Bernardino County Sheriff-Coroner John McMahon, at a press conference yesterday, said it best. “He could be anywhere.”
Exactly, if he were hiding on the mountain, he would have hid his truck, not lit it on fire for all to see. There are plenty of areas to dump a vehicle where nobody will see it for months…
John McMahon is an idiot.
#1 “not lit it on fire for ALL to see…” True, same way, would he JUST target those on his list? Where ALL are keeping an eye out for him? I bet the basturd is sleeping somewhere.
I don’t know what Fullerton blog it is, maybe some law enforcement blog, but I hear ACU’s comments are taken seriously and are missed in Fullerton…he may want to address them…but I highly suggest ACU not overwhelm them with mouth fulls, it get’s overwhelming and one tends to tune out.
If this guy is still in the mountains (and the chance on that is slim to none), then he went there with the sole intention of killing himself. But if that were the case, he would not have torched his truck. This is a guy whose movements have been calculated from the get-go. He tosses his wallet 100 miles from where burns his truck. He’s got the scent dogs running everywhere, creating confusion while he cleverly plans his next kill. Here’s what I think: He torched his vehicle to distract the cops so it would take longer for them to identify the vehicle, while also giving police a reason to stage in the mountains and stay put for at least a day or two to make sure he wasn’t there. He either had a car waiting for him in the Bear Mountain parking lot or someone met him there – a perfect rendezvous point. Someone could be working in cahoots with him or he had parked a getaway vehicle there prior to the incident. The guy has probably circled back to LA to finish what he started, and will ultimately end it there. Or, as McMahon said, he could be anywhere.
Oh, and another reason he’s not in the mountains: Why would a smart cop trying to be elusive would go to the one place where the chances of seeing big black man are slim to none?
The Sun is reporting…
“With heavy snow falling in the Big Bear Valley, San Bernardino County Sheriff Jim McMahon said at a noon news conference…”
That’s true, they put Sheriff “JIM” not “JOHN” maybe they have the right man in mind for the job, hmm? A slip of the tongue?
Mr. Ybarra from Big Bear…we hope you are safe, I bet this all got too close for comfort.
Regarding the comment by #4, to ACU, what Fullerton blog do you comment on? I am from the OC area and find the subjects you comment on interesting. It would be interesting to see your take on the area’s misdeeds.
#9, while in Orange County a couple years a go, I over heard a Cal State Fullerton professor, in a social gathering, mentioning “ACU’s” comments in a positive manner.
#8 – Thanks for your thoughts. All is well up here, except for the law enforcement officers that are scouring the Moonridge area in 18″ of snow. I believe that this guy is long gone.
I did hear from a friend of mine who is married to a local sheriff on the scene that Dorner crashed his truck and then fled, just before it lit up. I’m not so sure his intent was to hang out in Big Bear. Remember, he tried to rip off a yacht in San Diego but failed. Why he came up here, who knows. He is really a disturbed individual. There are other ways to deal with injustice than to blow people away.
The kids got a day off from school today because of the manhunt (probably would have been a snow day anyway).
Take care, my flatlander friends.
Mr. Ybarra, thanks for checking in and for the report, we’ve missed you. We need more people like yourself who do not resort to “slinging mud” when the chips don’t go your way, and we have ALL been there.
It appears Dorner has a plan. His experience
in navel intelligence is or can be a problem
for many.
Dorner is focused and has resolve, no fear,
crazy, your worst nightmare in reality.
To anonymous thanks for the words and hint.
Yes many will tune out after a certain point.
I just don’t think a few lines explains the deep
rooted problems.
Anonymous – It’s almost been a year since I was informed of this site by Neil Derry. I’ve gotten more that I expected by following the dialogue of all these bloggers.
I’ve learned about many issues that we mountain folk rarely get involved in, ie; The Colonies and such. It’s obvious in reading all the bantering back and forth by various folks, that regardless of which side of the fence you’re on, you all are all very passionate about the issues. That is a good thing.
I must admit, I like to read the blogs because of the humor I find. You guys are a kick. I think there is a healthy respect you all have for eachother.
Anyway, Mama is calling and I must retrieve to my cozy fire and movie.
Anonymous – It’s almost been a year since I was informed of this site by Neil Derry. I’ve gotten more that I expected by following the dialogue of all these bloggers.
I’ve learned about many issues that we mountain folk rarely get involved in, ie; The Colonies and such. It’s obvious in reading all the bantering back and forth by various folks, that regardless of which side of the fence you’re on, you all are all very passionate about the issues. That is a good thing.
I must admit, I like to read the blogs because of the humor I find. You guys are a kick. I think there is a healthy respect you all have for each other.
Anyway, Mama is calling and I must retrieve to my cozy fire and movie.
Sorry about the Duplicate posting…………
“I just don’t think a few lines explains the deep rooted problems.”
ACU, yes, A FEW LINES will do the job. You do not need to spell it out for us in long detailed chapters…like I said, we have ALL been there…and these “deep rooted” problems are nothing new, so we’ll understand.
I think we all agree it’s time that those in position to “delouse” -do so!
SBC needs to delouse government agencies, departments, employees, and elected officials, etc.
John McMahon is an idiot!!!Ditto he has the support of the BOS, Paul Cook , on and on and on. What a tool. Worst sheriff ever.This is a man hunt and he is spewing about his love fest with James Ramos and Company. Idiot.
@18 I gotta agree, McMahon’s kudos on how Ramos is supporting the efforts of the manhunt, this back patting is a joke and not needed in a crises like this, just BS politics, and John setting himself up for election time. WHO CARES!!!
It is going to cost taxpayers MILLIONS before this situation is resolved.
ACU, I’ll put San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department under McMahon’s leadership in a nut shell for you.
1. A SBSD sheriff stops a lady and asks for her license. He says “Lady, it says here that you should be wearing glasses.”
The woman answered “Well, I have contacts.”
The policeman replied “I don’t care who you know! You’re getting a ticket!”
2. A test for the best agency
The San Bernardino County Sheriff Department, The FBI, and the CIA are all trying to prove that they are the best at apprehending criminals. The President decides to give them a test. He releases a rabbit into a forest and each of them has to catch it.
The CIA goes in.
They place animal informants throughout the forest.
They question all plant and mineral witnesses.
After three months of extensive investigations they conclude that rabbits do not exist.
The FBI goes in.
After two weeks with no leads they burn the forest, killing everything in it, including the rabbit, and they make no apologies.
The rabbit had it coming.
The SBCS goes in.
They come out two hours later with a badly beaten bear.
The bear is yelling: “Okay! Okay! I’m a rabbit! I’m a rabbit!”
John McMahon and his news briefs sounds like a lame commercial for the Board of Supervisors. He sounds and looks like a loser. Not a leader. When things like the manhunt happen, this is when you see lack of leadership from someone like McMahon.
I agree ACU, back patting losers.
Tri-Tip,
I agree with you, ALL HELL IS BREAKING LOOSE and the only thing on
McMahon’s mind is McMahon!
He’s covering his bases (axx) with this “commercial” directed at the BOS.
First, to “reassure” them that they did NOT make a mistake in “rubber stamping” Hoops’ recommendation; although his resume only took up one paragraph consisting of- once again- “Hoops’ recommendation.”
Second, to show his love for them, so when the “test” is over, they will not get rid of him and replace him with Bushy…the man they should have gone with IN THE FIRST PLACE!
Bushy needs to get up to the mountains quick, McMahon is over his head and lives are on the line.
WHAT NOW HOOPS?
You gave us McMahon, and we feel afraid, scattered and leaderless …it’s no surprise that McMahon is feeling very insecure and lost and is NOT IN CHARGE…THOSE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF HIS CELL PHONE ARE! Good going HOOPS, DA MIKE RAMOS, J.Ramos GONZALES,RUTHERFORD, LOVINGOOD, OVIT AND DEVEREAUX…all of you have sold out the safety and peace of mind of ALL of San Bernardino County- for what!? For a damn green and shallow Political Appointment!
Tri-Tip,
I agree with you all that’s on McMahon’s mind is McMahon!
#22 I disagree that Bushy needs to get up to the mountains quick. Bushey did not even have the guts to face the Board of Supervisors.
The only person who should have been leading that charge should have been Paul Schrader.
Leadership steps up and out. Not looking for a hand out like Bushey and McMahon but fighting for what is right.
Yes I agree McMahon is over his head and lives are on the line. Talk is cheap.
Leadership is needed now and that is PAUL SCHRADER.
Why is Mcmahon doing what he is doing? It seems that James Ramos had a puppet. Did he have his hand up Macmahons shirt?
Anonymous -23, I think Schrader was also an agent with NIS for a few years. That kind of leadership is hard to find. I am sure he would not be a puppet boy for Ramos or Josie. The actions of McMahon speaks for him and what he is.
Also Keith Bushey sent a letter to the Board of Sups. Big deal! Not a leader.
Don’t know much about any of these men, but have read more about Schrader on line. The only thing I have read on Keith and Mcmahon looked like something the press wrote in the paper.
Just my thoughts!
#24
SSSSSSHHHHHHHRAAAAAAADDDDDDEEEEERRR?
Ouch, my ears!
Like I said, good team player…period.
No more.
He gives me a headache and it’s not the appropriate time to get into him.
#23
“Bushey did not even have the guts to face the Board of Supervisors.”
WRONG!
Facing the BOS had nothing to do with (mindless) “guts” – (Schrader comes to mind).
Bushey had the WISDOM and experience to understand WHEN and WHERE to pick his battles.
Bushey understood very well that presenting himself before the BOS was a waste of time, and would only add to the ridiculous drama and pretense the BOS had created for the public.
WISELY Brushey removed himself from all the deceit.
Bushey like McMahon were both looking for a handout. No guts but a lot of bull.
SCHRADER on the other hand went out and battled the Board. Leadership is standing up for what is right.
Bushey did nothing. That’s what you got nothing! What was a waste was him sending that letter and not following through. LOSER!
McMahon just sucked the Board’s ass behind the scenes. Great job another loser. Josie was afraid of Schrader because he would not put up with her ignorant ass! She said she wanted someone who would do what she wanted. Enter McMahon on his hands and knees.
Paul SCHRADER for SHERIFF!!!!!!!
#25 take your med’s little boy!SCCCCCCCCHHHHHHHRRRRRRAAAAADDDDDEEEERRR!!
25and26 is the reason I would vote for Schrader.
#27 I believe your “meds” comments belong to sharon at iepol…she’s whining and crying because this Doner guy has stolen her thunder, so she’s desperately trying to resurrect her stupid drama and public tantrums and hissy fits of years ago…
she blames it all on Greg Devereaux WHICH IS MAKING ME LIKE HIM MORE AND MORE KNOWING HE WOULD NOT PUT UP WITH HER PUBLIC LIES, FALSE ACCUSATIONS AND PHONY BALONEY LOONACY!
Well we all know what LAPD Chief Charlie Beck said about Dorner.
SUDDENLY a change is his position, damage control, someone soon to be thrown under the bus to avoid a FEDERAL investigation?
The beat goes on. Read and decide. Ol Charlie still trying to put a spin on things and save face.
http://news.yahoo.com/lapd-reopen-probe-fugitive-ex-cops-firing-014700767.html
#29 Paul Schrader for Sheriff!!
And now a SBSD deputy is dead….another clings to life,truth is our sheriffs dept is screwed up on so many levels.
McMahon trying to score political points,with his updates
Where is the training…help me out here ACU,guy steals a truck,jumps out and runs when confronted…..you go after him,trudge threw the show to catch him take him to jail.
I cannot understand,with all that was know about this killer….why did these officers not wait for backup,is that not be the procedure,was this a mistake…..where’s the training?
#31 NO.
#32 The house was confirmed empty and tightly surrounded, was there any reason for such a rush to blast the house, like they did the newspaper deliver truck, and why the rush also to smoke him out, could a they not have provided a cell phone to attempt communication? There were reports his mother was up there, was she not asked to make a plea first?
Maybe the Sheriffs Department will trade in those stupid ass Mini-14′s for a “Personal Defense Weapon” like DHS just did with their 7000 or so order they placed……..
You got to love it…… citizens own assault rifles, government calls them Personal Defense Weapon…… This shit just keeps getting thicker
#32 McMahon needs to step down for failed leadership.
#33 Paul Schrader for Sheriff 2014 YES!
#34 This will not happen as long as McMahon occupies the seat of sheriff.
@32 NO these deputies, the fish and game officer did not make any tactical mistakes on their decision to try and stop Dorner when he was spotted. Their actions needed to be IMMEDIATE, and they were.
To follow him,engage him, attempt to contain him after Dorner jumped out of his stolen vehicle was something that HAD to be done.
As Dorner has done the moment cops showed up or got close to him, he open fired, such actions leave LITTLE choice, for LE to do the same.
To allow Dorner to continue to move and not follow him, waiting for MORE back up was putting OTHER citizens at GREAT risk. Those deputies made a decision and set aside their personal safety to accomplish the objective.
Dorner would just break into another cabin, taken hostages, carjacked more people. THAT is why he was pursued by those LE personnel in the manner he was.
It would have been nice if Dorner had simply ran into that cabin without firing a shot, those LE personnel could have simply taken postions around the cabin and waited for the calvary to arrive, which is what eventually happened, but not before two more cops were shot.
It simply came down to who could shoot and hit their target first, before Dorner entered that cabin.
Actually Dorner was forced into that cabin because of those deputies actions. MISSION accomplish, Dorner is now contained.
We know the results after that.
It is simply a sad day for all that has happened in the last 10 days.
Thanks,ACU.
Your welcome!!
#36 ACU. That is spot on. Just like the Norco Bank Robbery of 1980 and the North Hollywood Bank Robbery of 1997, this whole incident will be reviewed by law enforcement world wide. Lessons learned will be taught to the law enforcement community.
Another question….under what circumstances,and from what level of command would the order come down to burn the cabin.
An order was given and cleary heard,to officers on the scene…to “burn it,burn it!”
…..that was heard on SBSD scanner exchanges
ACU…..I heard federal agents were on the scene, Is this true? If so, would you consider the fire WACOesq or was this simply the safest option? Do you think it would have been worth the effort to try and take him alive by starving him out?
ALSO…Now that he is dead, Bratton has been in the news justifying Dorner’s termination. Do you think killing Dorner was the easiest way to sweep things under the rug and get back to business as usual?
Btw, Did you know the slain Sheriff’s detective?
@Red, YES the old analogy that DEAD MEN tell no lies is true in this case.
Do I believe LAPD is glad Dorner is dead? YES!!! More than the others involved that’s for sure.
Why are the feds involved, unknown since the local boys handled things just fine once the fireworks commenced. Feds just offering a helping hand, could be.
Feds working on something of interest at their level, unknown to others at this time, could be. HOPE SO as far as I am concerned.
WHY does Bratton or Beck in ANYWAY attempt to continue to justifie Dorners termination? Why is BECK still looking at Dorners termination if he is dead?
Why did LAPD play such a BIG ROLE in the media and operations within others jurisdiction when a NUT JOB terminated ex-cop suddenly threatens people?
ALL the NUT JOBS crimes committed outside LAPD jurisdiction?
LAPD wanted to lead the charge on all aspects of this case, even outside their jurisdiction. WHY????????????
Yes there are things happening yet know to others. We will see if those HONEST HONORABLE LE officials want to break more news to the world or sit on top of some stuff in the interests of politics or their own agenda.
BUT LAPD seems to be working up a SERIOUS sweat right now. Of course ONLY LAPD thinks they can handle guys like Dorner.
It ain’t over folks.
ACU…a comment for#40……thanks ts
I will soon TSB. I know what your thinkin.
@ Red I did not know the deputy that was
killed. Sorry I missed that question.
@ TSB, no orders were given to burn anything.
The gas canisters used burn hot while dispersing
the gas.
Hot enough to ignite wood especially when using
more than one.
The radio traffic heard, were I hope someone’s
personal emotions coming out. NO such
comments need go out over the air
waives, but they do. It is what it is.
You see a friend or co worker killed, YOUR
PISSED. If the worse you do or say is burn MF,
oh well.
I know how the deputy died, it was horrific.
I am pissed, I wasn’t even there.
Go ask combat soldiers if they say such
things?
I hope this helps explain a little.
Mr. Ybarra, we were glad not to hear your name in the news, stay safe.
Sorry ACU…..I have to disagree,I heard these orders myself….”Burn it, burn it down!”.
…..another victim,our system of law and process.
TSB I won’t dispute what you heard.
But burning the structure down even though
un-conventional is not illegal, nor out of
the question from a tactical or safety stand point.
If tear gas does not flush a suspect out
of hiding flames and heat should.
Dorner had every opportunity to give up prior
to using gas.
We all know he claimed to have explosives
to. All the more reason to deploy the armored
truck and gas in the manner they did.
Now if anyone is suggesting that more should have been done to capture Dorner alive, well OKAY!!! Easy for one to say when the their not there doging bullets.
Make NO MISTAKE folks some think there is this checklist that cops need to go down before they decide to do certain things. There is NO checklist.
When you wage WAR against anything or anyone then that is exactly what it is WAR!!!! War is not fought a certain way here, and another way over seas. The only thing not used here is bombs.
Rules of warfar do not include taking casualties on your side to impress on lookers so everyone will finally say OKAY enough is enough go ahead and drop the A bomb you tried your best.
If Mrs.Dorner thinks the cops murdered her son, she has EVERY right to sue in a “wrongul death” action. That will be up to her and I am sure she might consider that in light of the allegations of wrongful termination from LAPD. We will see, but it must be done within one year.
I will bet anything she will NOT COLLECT one dime either. Much like the mother of one of the LA BANK shootout suspects back in the mid 90′s.
She sued the City of LA claiming the cops did not treat her son’s injuries quick enough and they allowed him to bleed to death.
A jury of 12 thought otherwise.
But this is America and everyone is entitled to say Dorner was murder and ignore the fact he killed innocent people who had nothing to do with his termination.
I can tell you from real life experience if I think your going to kill me, I am taking you out however I see fit, I don’t give a damn what others say.
Now those cops who shot up those other trucks with the surfer and newspaper ladies is a WHOLE different story in this drama.
Look at the system and see if it works seeking justice for them. I will be standing right next to most of you calling FOUL!!!
Oh, wait a min. So Dorner was once a cop. More than likely he arrested some people in his past. What do you think he is going to do if some resisted arrest? It is not a crime to get arrested, only a crime when you are convicted.
I am sorry, but if I started shooting at a cop, I would expect them to return fire! It sounds like to me from the statements made by the Department of Fish and Wildlife Dorner fired on his officers. They returned fire. I would expect them to do that.
Now, we could of maybe done it differently. Like set up a banquet table and have Dorner come out and enjoy his “Last Supper”. Christ did that, so should have Dorner.
Dorner wanted to go out in a blaze of glory and he did. He could have ended this whole mess by surrendering peacefully. He chose to kill innocent people and two cops. He also maned two cops. We will not know for a while if they will ever return to duty again as peace officers.
And for all we know, Dorner could have started a fire himself to make it appear that the incendiary gas did it. I think he knew his fate was sealed in that cabin or home.
Decades of corruption,coverup and outright criminal activites….with scandals playing out before dormer,in the SBCSD,the DAs office(ramos),the BOS a few local cities a local hospital,on and on.
This action and its outcome is not a job well done,just more crap from a disfuntional local power structure
Sorry ACU,I understand your feelings for your lost brothers,however many questions need to be answered,this JUDGE DREDD type of law enforcement …..are we a nation of LAW or not!…..is what we’ve come to?
TSB obviously an outside investigation
will need to be done.
Take what you have to the FBI and give
it to them.
They are the only one who can get through
the corruption.
Good luck let us know. Remember it was just
a couple guys who brought President Nixon
down.
ACU, with all due respect and not to be argumentative in any way, but, weren’t the guys that brought Nixon down investigative journalists? Do we have those kinds of reporters/newspaper editors these days in the era of newspapers being owned by the very people that are committing the corruption? If you know of one, please tell me, restore my faith in the press. Is Joe Nelson going to investigate and bring us the truth?(LMAO that I even wrote Joe Nelson and investigate in the same sentence)
ACU…you and I have been having fun in here for many years…the FBI,has been aware of all the history of SBC,and has failed to address any of it.
I do hear the FBI is looking into the hacking sharon gilberts computer by the sheriffs dept.
Sharon Gilbert is another nutball. Granted, she is intelligent. But she is a pesky mosquito of a person. Good for nothing, and a nuisance. And the FBI couldn’t give a crap about her. I’m guessing she wore out her welcome with them, just like every other person or agency she comes into contact with.
@54 you are RIGHT. ONLY one paper that comes close to bringing forth the stench within this county is the SB Sentinel. I have been looking at the LA Times on the Dorner matter, cause they do seem to ask the tuff questions sometimes.
Joe Nelson,lol if I had a video tape of a murder he would be the last one I’d called for the EXCLUSIVE report.
@TSB, at this point with the FBI and ALL the other issues, yep what can I say. Hard to understand with all that has gone on, but the FBI is DEEP into an investigation with LASD. They did come down in Upland.
The words you heard, “burn it, burn it” on the radio up on the mountain is not something I would wrap my arms around RIGHT now.
We don’t know what happened PRIOR to that radio traffic, that simple.
If I was to DIG on something, it would be Dorner’s termination at this point. I think one will find more answers there for now than the words heard over the police radio.
Start at the bottom of this saga and work up.
The United States Supreme Court all the way down has made numerous rulings on the use of deadly force by police.
They have NEVER implied that a cop should be fired upon before returning fire, or a number of dead bodies be present before acting, those are MY words.
But the courts opinion on these matters are clear in PLAIN language.
This scenario with Dorner is SO FAR within the spectrum on the JUSTIFIED use of force it isn’t funny.
I am simply saying, I would NOT be the one to take what happened on the mountain with the radio traffice heard and try and make ANY case against the cops at this point.
But those who think they have FOUND the EVIDENCE to launch their attack on SBSD, be my guest, and good luck.
And it doesn’t matter whether they burned his butt up, or a sniper shot him or BOTH.
GO for it if you think you can make the case. It’s America anything is possible.
@ 56 your an idiot, it was the FBI who contacted Sharon to advise her of the problem.
NICE try buddy!!!!!
My name is Kenny Holtz, I approve this message.
#58 Sharon and you have it right. I think that SBSD has a black eye from years of piss poor leaders including McMahon. They KFI are saying McMahon is an idiot and seems to be covering up his inept actions. I think SBSD has some great people doing a great job. Just the fools like McMahon make everyone look like crap. The dep’s on this action did the best thing at the time. No Monday morning quarterbacks! God Bless those that gave it all!!!!
Just saying.
….Ken , Allen Kephart comes to mind and look how they buried that one…..and the FBI did only half the work in upland…..sexcapades with the DA and the sheriff on a regular basis at the cantina…..the FBI and the AG are not being good stewards of the law,hence a part of the problem.
#56, I agree with you!
Yeah, the FBI cares about her “anorexic*” blathering blog. Sharon Gilbert is so shady and corrupt herself I bet she asked her “off shore” friends to do her a favor and make it appear like she had an issue with a hacker— which is a very COMMON occurrence….
Oh wait!!
That’s right, Sharon Gilbert is “different” because she belongs to that MAGESTIC 12 secret committee!!
If all that top secret surveillance and intelligence stored in her computer gets out, panic and mass suicide will break out world-wide! The horror!
I bet the FBI will catch those criminals just as fast as Hoops came knocking at my door when Sharon announced, twice, that she “reported” my “threats” and IP # to Sheriff Hoops himself! Since she claims to have such high influential “connections”, I believed her and waited all week for Hoops… but he never came by, I even cried for nothing because now he is gone forever, Sharon is evil for getting my hopes up so high! #56 is correct, she long ago wore out her welcome, she’s down to “one” committed blind rubber stamper to “approve” her every MISDEED and lies.
* I stole the word “anorexic” from Legal Eagle, it was funny.
Well I can’t argue with what has been said on the decades of corruption.
Yep TSB I haven’t forgot about Allen.. I didn’t know that Mikey Ramos was a customer of the Cantina, WELL hell now things come into play there for sure. I could wrap my arms around Allen’s case that was for sure.
Makes perfect sense why Mikey stayed clear of JP and that entire issue. I thought it was weird he went after Q, but not JP. Now I know. Good point thank you.
Well I guess we will see where this Dorner thing takes SBSD,LAPD as time goes by.
TSB in case you didn’t know, those two deputies who were shot, layed there for about 10 minutes until 3 Narcotics detectives jumped into a pick up truck, while firing on the cabin and under fire from the cabin, drove to where the down deputies lay, picked them up and hauled butt to the LZ for medavac to LLU.
@61 Dennis Jr, I didn’t know you were the one who made the threat, that figures. But thanks for telling everyone else.
I copied this from another cite, A WELL written commentary that strikes the heart of the issues.
#164 by Truth Be Told on February 14, 2013
There was nothing to weed out prior to Christopher Dorner’s employment. LAPD created the monster Dorner became and now many must painfully deal with it. The tools in place to weed out the mentally ill in the police selection process works very well.
Dorner was not fired because he was black, he was hired because he is black. He was fired because he was a “Whistle Blower.” Dorner being fired was a microscopic message to Dorner himself, but the enormous message with his firing was to the rest of the LAPD. “If you see or hear something that is abusive or corrupt, keep your big mouth shut or we’ll fire you too!”
Police administrations can handle complaints from the public. They understand those complaints and are prepared to deal with them. The ego’s of chief’s, sheriff’s, commanders or captain’s simply cannot stand a rank-and-file officer coming to them with complaints about abuse or corruption within their department’s or division. Simply put, these administrators are offended by internally generated complaints because it shows them, and everyone else that a subordinate knew something before they did.
What Dorner likely struggled with, and angered over daily, which festered into rage and tragedy in the end was the intentional, antiquated legal representation he received from Ret. Capt. Randal Quan. Dorner likely only became aware that his legal representation was substandard after the fact. Dorner then likely felt foolish for believing a retired captain from his own police administration was actually going to work hard on his behalf to save a job his administrative friends a colleagues were trying to take away.
Attorney and Retired LAPD Captain Randal Quan is friends with Attorney and Retired LAPD Captain
Paul Coble of the Law Firm Jones & Mayer in Fullerton, CA. Both are friends/colleagues with Retired Captain and former Fullerton City Council Member Pat McKinley. Paul Coble is a hired gun; a hatchet man that helps police chief’s and sheriff’s from throughout Southern California fire undesirable police officers and deputies; especially Whistle Blowers. Dorner never had a chance as Quan was going to provide the most minimal of defenses to a client like Dorner. Quan’s loyalty is and will always be with police administrations.
Dorner’s ultimate meltdown was a long process. Initially when fired, Dorner was hurt. He felt betrayed, embarrassed, and humiliated. Quan, his attorney, was someone Dorner trusted to right the wrong done to him. Quan then betrayed him, as did a rubber stamped appeals process.
Dorner’s untreated hurt turned into anger. His untreated anger turned into depression. His untreated depression turned into rage. This ultimate rage led to his murderous retaliation; but even in his rage, his focus remained clear as to whom his enemies now were. This is why the civilians Dorner encountered after the Irvine homicides were not murdered by him. Dorner’s rage extended to his former rank-and-file colleagues as they stood silent in the wake of his termination, and likely all the friends he once had in the LAPD turned their backs on him. Any LAPD officer that remained friends with him would find themselves being fired as well as an example to all.
One of the many unreported ironies in this tragedy is as it relates to the Riverside Police Department. In 2010, then Riverside Police Chief Russ Leach was arrested for DUI/Hit & Run after crashing his unmarked police unit following a drinking binge at the 215 Strip Club in Colton, CA. One Riverside officer who refused to help cover up the accident was, you guessed it, fired for Whistle Blowing. You the public, and the law enforcement (Family?) turned their backs on him as well. So who is at fault for these retaliatory terminations taking place with impunity? The press and you the public are. For as much as you both demand honesty and integrity from law enforcement, the moment one of these officer’s blows the whistle, you all suddenly turn into Tony Soprano and call them a Rat! Or better yet, a disgruntled employee. Truth be told, you can’t take “Yes” for an answer when it comes to Whistle Blowers. In the competitive, money driven media market, the new media will cease to be the self-ordained Whistle Blowers of police corruption if they allow law enforcement officer’s to successfully do that job themselves. But hey, that’s not your problem; right?
This commentary is WELL supported by previous civil cases right out of the LAPD history books.
If you ignore this very real causation factor, YOU are way behind the learning curve.
JP’s father is connected or I should say was connected to the county. He held the position of Director of Vehicle Services for over 10 years.
Mistar connect another dot. Thanks.
ACU,thank you and wow…..great info on dorner,when an individual with a high level of personal integrity (and I do think we need to understand his backstory)…is treated in this manner….BOOM!,,,,,this madman was made….not born,and the circumstances that flipped his switch need to be identified and fully investigated…we owe that at the very least to our ‘men of community and duty’….god bless them their love ones and the other victims as well.
ACU, thanks and wow! this information(I feel its important to know the whole backstory on dorner) raises many questions,as to the curcumstances that contributed to his mayhem,they need to be identified and fully investigated….we owe this,to our fallen…..’men of duty and community’…god bless them,their families and the other victims as well.
What is of concern TSB is WHY did LAPD go out of their way to try and catch Dorner, when Dorner did NOT committ crimes in their jurisdiction?
Yes Dorner threatened current employees of LAPD, so they sent out cops to protect them which is the right thing to do.
But LAPD was leading the charge to get Dorner at least from a media aspect. Behind the scenes they were sticking their nose in EVERYONE elses business.
Yes a couple of LAPD cops were shot at in Corona, but LAPD is still not in charge of that investigation either, it would be Corona PD.
Why be so concerned about an employee you fired 3 years earlier?
Knowing what I know about these things it CLEARLY appears LAPD wanted everyone to stand back and let them deal with Dorner.
Almost like, LET US kill this guy, HOW DARE he challenge the great LAPD and DARE threaten employees, we have JUDGED him unworthy as a cop. We are going to TEACH him a lesson and make him an example to anyone who goes public with his greviances.
When LAPD flew into the area of the final stand off with a SWAT team and were not in ANYWAY asked to do so, were told to STAND DOWN by SBSD, this thought hit me.
We all saw the tremedous amount of LAPD personnel and helicopters standing by at San Bernardino Airport WAITING a request from SBSD as told by LAPD media relations.
Funny how LAPD forgot to tell everyone we showed up and were TOLD to leave.
It does make you wonder if LAPD was SCARED that the truth of what Dorner was saying would get out in a more detailed way if Dorner had turned himself in and the case went to trial.
From a tactical standpoint there were too many guys already at the cabin,anymore would have made it a historical circus.
Just think TSB if there was NO MANIFESTO? No manifesto we ALL would no nothing of his motives. LAPD could have put a LARGER spin on this debacle.
How many of Dorners targets would have been hit before others caught on?
Remember the OJ Simpson case, despite the evidence of his guilt, NOT GUILTY was heard around the world, the jury was convinced LAPD had SCREWED with a famous and well like black entertainer and Mark Furhman was a RACIST cop.
Remember the Rampart scandal,Rodney King too.
I am still wondering why the US NAVY has said NOTHING about Dorner? WAS it that he was an excellent member of the Navy of high integrity? It is noteworthy that Dorner did not launch his raid UNTIL he was discharged under honorable conditions from the Navy.
I don’t think Dorner wanted to dishonor the Navy by launching his rath while still active with the Navy.
Much like Dorner did not want to physically harm those citizens he encounter during his travels.
ACU, I like what you are adding to this dialogue. So many times when situations like this occur, there is a rush to make it all black and white. Someone is right, someone is wrong, someone is bad, someone is good… Life does not work that way, and these issues are complex. I recently went out on a limb to give an opinion. It did not go well, I think because there was a perception that because I was not one hundred percent for something, I must be one hundred percent against it. Criticizing our government, our political structures and our politicians is the right given to us by our government, and it is patriotic. Nobody is off limits, we all have a right to our opinions. To be able to look at a situation and pick it apart, and decide what is right about it and what is wrong, what is justified and what is not, where can we improve, what was done wrong, is the intelligent way to go about improving our system.
Our country is what it is for having that very
attitude. That simple.
Thank you for the comment.
#70….very well said!
There are those who hail his integrity, intelligence, boldness, heroism, skill, etc. He wrote a big “manifesto” about all the injustices in his life, many of which people can sympathize with, and bottom lines it with violent vengeance. After all these injustices piled up in his life, he decided he is going to perpetrate the same injustice on his oppressors. He may have succeeded at gaining some sympathy, but when it comes down to it, he was a miserable failure in his intended mission and life.
He had a lifelong mission of seeking sympathy. His first failure – the one where the principal swatted both him and his racial offender – is never learning that vengeance is not an excuse for violence.
Ultimately his final mission was to hurt LAPD. His first assault in this mission was to murder an Asian girl and her African-American fiancé. At this point, he is beyond redemption. He has already failed.
After the murders, his first instinct was to run away on a boat in San Diego, assaulting and attempting to rob someone of their boat. In hindsight, you can already see that he was a miserable failure.
Inexplicably, his third assault was attacking Riverside PD. What in any way, shape or form, had these people contributed to the injustices of his life? Oh, they “look” like those people who hurt his feelings.
The end game of his “plan” had him kidnapping, car-jacking, assaulting and murdering – all unrelated to the perpetrators of the injustices in his life.
Dorner’s final tally of murders:
1. Monica Quan – daughter of somebody he didn’t like.
2. Keith Lawrence – Someone whose mistake was loving a girl whose father is a lawyer.
3. Michael Crain – A true hero who was at the wrong place at the wrong time.
4. Jeremiah Mackay – A true hero directly in pursuit of him.
Dorner was a smoldering racist, sexist, and socially inept baby who thought he was better than everyone else, and all his failures were someone else’s fault. So if you have sympathy for this craven fool, and want to give him a pass, you’re going to see Dorner in Hell, and the four he murdered waiving at you from Heaven.
Well said #73…
In the beginning it was said that Dorner’s mother told him that “sometimes bad things happen to good people” but that he said he could “not accept” that. That resonated with me because I too am having a hard time accepting that fact of life, but I choose to work within the system, as frustrating as that has been because I too find it hard to be “heard”, just as he wanted to be heard. Others may understand that feeling too. In the end, he was the “bad thing” that happened to “good people” that he is now forcing others to have to come to grips with. He forced those people to have to try to accept the very thing he could not. My heart hurts for those people at the beginning of that long journey. Just a small observation to add to all the others…
@75 well said. The problem we have as a society is, we fail to put ALL the eggs in one basket when looking at the BIG PICTURE.
ONLY when something of this HORRIFIC nature happens does anyone EVEN begin to think outside their VERY narrow mindset.
But it is life as we know it, and such incidents will ALWAYS be with us.
#73
“He wrote a big “manifesto” about all the injustices in his life”
Big deal, I, as most everyone can do the same!!!
“he decided he is going to perpetrate the same injustice”
Dorner took it upon himself to dish out “justice” by playing God because he saw himself as superior and above everyone else, he even wants his brain studied, I say feed it to the hyenas!!!
Dorner served in the Navy.
Is our duty to our country
A) below our duty to the Church;
B) above our duty to the Church
C) equal to our duty to the Church.
Answer C
EQUAL!
So we do not need to waste money and “study” his brain to know his problem was that he did not believe in God…good thing his brain already went up in flames or the liberals would be spending millions on “studying” and defending Dorner’s actions!
This was an interesting read. I’m sorry I missed it when the deal was going down. The LAPD is an interesting lot to say the least. Author James Ellroy’s “fictional” accounts of the LAPD through the years make for good reading as well.