Posted: 07/16/2011 06:15:00 PM PDT
Candidates running for a vacant seat on the City Council were given a chance to share their thoughts on the Kenneth Beck vs. city of Upland case during a forum on Wednesday at El Dorado Mobile Home Park.
Candidates Muhammad Zaman and Maureen Sundstrom were out of town during the forum, but were able to respond later in the week.
The candidates responses in the order they spoke at the forum:
Ladan Bezanson, learning coordinator for Montclair, believes the reports on the case leaves a mark on the city’s reputation.
“It really stings our reputation as to how we deal with problems,” Bezanson said. “It makes us look like a few of our departments are corrupt, and that’s one of the things I’m talking about is restoring integrity to our office. If we cannot work effectively and well with the community they won’t trust us and we won’t represent them well.”
Eric Gavin, software architect for a Florida-based bank, said he and the other candidates received packages at their homes with the case and related documents.
“One of the things that immediately sprang to mind was this is one side of it,” Gavin said. “One of the things I think you’ll find about me is I may have my initial positions on something on any given issue, but it’s extremely important for me to get both sides of it.”
Elaine Courey, Bonita Unified School District teacher, said it was shocking to see a man standing outside her house with the packet of information when she got home from work as well as shocking to read through the information.
“I’m not going to place judgment on anybody or anything that’s been done in the past. I feel it’s time to move forward and move on and get the city back on track again,” Courey said. “I want my city to move on. I don’t feel this is something that should be brought up in this election. I feel we need to take the best interest of the city and work on moving forward, not backward.”
Bob “Bubba” DeJournett, retired Upland teacher and softball coach, is also a retired Monrovia police officer.
“I’m not going to sit here and judge whether it was right or not. The court decided in reference to that case and apparently there was some payout and things like that,” DeJournett said. “However, when you’re acting as a police officer, you’re working under the guidance of the law. You’re really working sometimes at a moment’s notice. You’re making judgments and then ship the paperwork to the (district attorney’s) office. If the DA signed a document indicating to make a lawful arrest, you make a lawful arrest and go to court.”
Dan Morgan, Upland city treasurer, said Beck should be held accountable for removing the pile of dirt and the city was incorrect by not going through the bidding process.
“It did appear to me that we as a city overreacted and forced this thing to go on for many years, where I feel it should have been a negotiation process. By missing the bid process I think we really messed up, and by not negotiating with this individual trying to rectify the situation moving forward,” Morgan said. “Sometimes I think government can get too legal-bound and wants to file lawsuits. We even file lawsuits against agencies in government, which is a pathetic mess. You really need to get together and negotiate.”
Steven Roppel, real estate agent with Lee & Associates, said the city needs to be wary of how the situation was handled.
“The city had to settle that it was handled incorrectly. We still have that pile of dirt out there. We still have the issue to deal with,” Roppel said. “We do need to consider how it was handled in the past, how it should have been better handled and how it will be handled going forward. We need to be concerned about individuals’ involvement in that matter and are they appropriate people to be in a position of leadership and trust at this point.”
Debbie Stone, funeral director for Stone Funeral Home, said the situation was handled improperly, but the city needs to move forward.
“It’s the old saying, `right is right and wrong is wrong,’ and no matter how you look at it what happened with the Beck case was wrong,” Stone said. “It was not handled properly. Procedures were not followed, and I think right there is where the mistake was made. It cost the city a lot of money, a lot of money we don’t have. We don’t need to be spending on lawsuits such as that because someone didn’t do their job properly.”
Sam Fittante, retired owner of a lawn maintenance company, said the case is history and the forum should not be a “roast Marty Thouvenell night.”
“I think the city of Upland wastes a lot of time not moving things forward quickly enough and just taking care of business,” Fittante said. “I don’t know Marty that well, but what I do know I appreciate. I don’t think elections should be a time to throw mud. You do your own homework on the situation and make up your own mind and vote from your heart. People use this word in our government, `transparency.’ I used it once in my campaign. I don’t care for the word. I like the word illuminate. You can have something transparent, but if it’s still in the dark you can’t see it.”
Muhammad Zaman, a management consultant, was not present during the forum because he was out of the state, but said on Thursday that he’s not sure what the city can do about the situation at this point.
To read entire story, click here.
Beck and his dirt pile are examples of disregard for the law. He’s a convicted felon who has taken advantage of the city and its residents.
“Beck Dump Site”, please elaborate. Dineen Trucking supposedly has a grandfathered exemtion.
The following links seem to indicate that Thouvenall, Mendenhall, JP and other city officials went on an all out witch hunt for Beck. Also involved was then city manager Milhiser, who was paid $200k to resign and sign a non-disclosure agreement. Not to mention Pomierski, who’s trial on corruption charges commences shortly
http://www.ninthcircuitopinions.com/2008/05/28/beck-v-city-of-upland/
http://www.inlandempire.us/politics/upland-election-pd-chief-promotion-resurrect-beck-affair/
Here’s a part of what retired 20 year city attorney Don Maroney said in the article:
“Perhaps the most articulate and best credentialed of those now speaking out is Don Maroney, who was Upland’s city attorney for over 20 years during a law career that spanned 45 years. He retired as Upland city attorney in 1993. Maroney has remained abreast of developments in Upland, where he resided and raised six children into adulthood. He said he was aware of the Beck case when it was ongoing and had recently reviewed the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals ruling on the matter.
“I’m no less appalled now then when I first heard about it,” Maroney said.
Noting that “I spent a good part of my career as Upland’s legal counsel,” Maroney said he was accustomed to looking for justification and vindication in the actions of those employed by the city. He nevertheless said he would have been hard pressed to mount a plausible legal defense of the city had the Beck suit been filed during his watch.
“This was one of the worst jobs of policing I’ve ever seen,” Maroney said. “I remember just being knocked over when I first heard about this, but I had forgotten how bad it was. I just reread the Ninth Circuit’s findings and it goes into chapter and verse of how they walked all over this Beck fellow’s rights by arresting him without probable cause. Basically, what the judges discussed was whether Jeff Mendenhall, who was a sergeant at the time, immunized himself and chief Thouvenall by getting the district attorney to file charges. The Ninth Circuit’s analysis was that the arrest warrant did not get them off the hook in any way. The judges pulled no punches. They called it what it was, a false arrest.”
BDS, you should have spoke up on behalf of the City long ago with such a compelling argument.
A dirt pile outways ones civil rights? OKAY!!!
Hmmm you think Mr.Curley the City Attorney might have his employees get a court order to remove the dirt pile? If Mr.Beck still refuses to comply with the order of the court, the city can move in,remove the dirt and then charge Beck for the clean up?
If Beck refuses to pay for the clean up, you put a lien on his property until the debt is paid. Seems pretty simple to me.
Your thoughts?
@ACU – Becks got no money left and the property isn’t in his name anymore. The city is screwed. Beck has made it known his utter contempt for the city and ever removing the dirt pile. Can’t get blood from a stone…get it… STONE… lol. Not only did he squander his settlement money which obviously you feel was not enough of a punishment to the City of Upland for his day of inconvenience but now you make it sound like he didn’t get in a drunken verbal altercation at a chamber dinner with the Chief of Police and make verbal threats. Why does everyone make Mr. Beck sound like such a model citizen and the perfect victim here? He was a convicted criminal and decided to start a fight with a police officer in public… I am shocked he didn’t get more charges against him… Damn DAs can’t ever seem to get their charges right. There are plenty of people in this city that know the real Beck and don’t by this crap your selling about civil rights violations… Again we can put this back in terms you love to ask, what would you know about civil rights? If you are a lawyer you must not be a very good one.
Beck is in jail and has been for quite a while.
BFS it appears you didn’t read the case from the Courts based on several of your comments.
So what can I say? Go read the case then come back in here and explain it or tear it apart.
Sounds like your a spin doctor or attempting to side track the issue yourself.
No lawyer here.
Beck can be the town asshole if you wish to paint him as such. How did such a person who is a convicted criminal and bad guy win this case?
Sounds like Beck had a better lawyer than the City did? Who’s fault is that?
Maybe we can blame the judge who dismissed the criminal case against Beck in the first place.
Go read the case like I said. YOU might learn something.
@Pigs, thanks for posting those links.
Maybe some of these folks commenting will take the time to read it.
Funny how the Beck case was mentioned right here, LONG BEFORE the City Counsel race started. ONLY now are a few coming out and talking trash about Beck.
Beck might be the worst citizen in Upland, but I noticed the Court didn’t mention that, either did the lawyers defending the City.
I think the real issue is that the city seems to have an ongoing problem in dealing with issues in an appropriate manner. I don’t know Beck and he could be the worst citizen in the city, but the obviously heavy-handed tactics in addressing situation is what exposed the city and cost all of us plenty. Milhiser was paid handsomely to resign and it sure looks like Thouvenall resigned for similar reasons. If they did nothing wrong, why the $375k settlement? No problem, they clean up their messes with taxpayer money. This case sounds like it was a training session so they could write an SOP and establish protocol on how to mis-handle future situations, like the Chronic Catina debacle. Lot’s of similarities, no?
How many countless criminals go free when their lawyers get them off in appellate court and they cry foul. You blame the Cop. That is the best you got? Bottom feeding ambulance chasers are all the same. Throw civil rights up as a front to try and trash a decorated officer of over 30 years in an election. Keep bringing up the case as a reason not to vote for a former police chief with a great record of service. That is all The Stone Campaign can do is throw dirt. Move your shovel over a bit honey, the real dirt is up at the top of Mountain Avenue by Bob Cables place. Doesn’t matter what court testimony transcripts you bring up. You just spin this to your heart’s desire. You have a choice, you either side with the criminals in this town or with the law that protects it. Most of us have already made our choice. See you at the forum tonight.
BFS, did you read any of the links and background on this case? A Chamber of Commerce social event sure wasn’t the right venue and it seems both parties made statements they probably reqretted later.
Problem is, Mendenhall left Thouvenall’s “we should have taken care of you(Beck)a long time ago” out of the police report. How convenient. If Beck is scum, that’s fine, but it does not excuse the behavior of our city leaders(?)to act in the manner they did. Perhaps they could have exercised ACU’s option in post #3 to resolve the dispute. No, that makes too much sense.
I am not an endorser of Stone, or anyone else for that matter. I have no idea who I am voting for and hopefully tonight’s meeting will be productive enough to assist me in making a decison.
But don’t think for a second that this case is not relavant to Thouvenall’s ability to lead our city effectively in the future. And for all those that want to ignore it because “it is in the past”…..well, past behavior is a good indicator of future performance. Let’s see if Thouvenall can defend his actions adequately tonight. That should be some magic trick.
The big mistake was not arresting Beck on the spot at the event and let it go to the next day. They case would have read much differently had they not let him go home and embarrassed the Chamber by having a public incident. The charges would have stuck if he got a drunk and disorderedly attached to it that was provable. You can Monday morning quarterback this case and the settlement all you want. It is real easy to question things after the dust settles. Go talk to you police officers. They will tell you what they think.
It seems that your attitude is that criminals and dirt bags in this town can cuss out law enforcement officers and they should be treated as heroes. It is a shame that everyone lacks the ability to remember this was a settled civil case that Beck was paid to remove his dirt pile and he thumbed his nose at the City and has vowed to never touch it.
The use of the case as evidence of someone’s career is ludicrous. How many drug dealers and murders have The Chief and Mendenhall put away to keep us safe? You think that is easy? You lack the ability to see the difference between a feud between and angry trucker and the city, and a decorated officer who defended the shield and the city for more years than any other person in this city.
The Beck case was not the reason he retired. That is a stretch. You can’t play that card either.
Don’t mislead the voters of Upland about how the city settles law suits. They pay out millions every year in settlements that you never hear about. Just like every other City, and County, and State, and Federal agency in the country. You can’t make an appellate ruling on one case look like malfeasance. This city is better equipped to deal with its problems than you think. Go feed on the carcass of some other case and find a real issue to complain about. This is not a civil rights victory for some legal watchdog agenda.
Hey there Rookies, better go back to law school. Your over interpretation of the “opinion” of a panel of judges is not a win or judgment against a city, or any law enforcement officer. They gave him an opening to continue with his case “IF” he were to proceed with a civil suit against the city. The city decided not to go to trial. All parties agreed, settled, and went home. No one was ever found guilty of civil rights violations and your obvious misuse of the language used in the case file and over exaggeration of facts relating to a civil suit that was never put to test of a trial is offensive.
Quoting unreliable sources like the Sentinel and the fossil Maroney is also not credible. Maroney was let go because he couldn’t do the job anymore and was falling asleep at council meetings. Can you dig up a more credible source than an internet link to a newspaper article or a senile old man?
@BFS – Let me know if you want the actual transcripts and not some internet version of summery opinions.
Pigs, I submit BFS is none other than Thouvenell himself or a close follower. We see this EVERYTIME something heats up.
We saw the samething with Q in the final hours with a couple supporters or Q himself coming in under a screen name beating his chest like a gorilla.
If these supporters had their ducks in a row, believed in their cause they would state their name and challenge those who oppose them with something equal to the courts opinion in the Beck case.
For the record, those of you paying attention you notice Martin Thouvenell told me to contact him. I did via email.
He has not responded back and now we see these postings coming forth regarding Beck and him. It appears someone is nervous.
Circumstantial indeed, but the timing is funny. I call it desperation at it’s finest. JUST like we saw with Q before he got terminated.
Pigs if your going to tonights meeting, I’d download a copy of the Courts opinion on Beck. Have it handy in case you need to quote something.
It appears right now the dummies are not reading what you posted so it might come in handy if challenged by some idiot running for office.
Just my thoughts!!!
HEY BFS maybe you didn’t read my other links as to Thouvenell, that too cost the city. It offers are far better argument than you make.
Now add the other issues going on in the city with JP,Q,Chief Adams,Sergeant Moore, YOU have nothing but your good word.
Beck takes advantage of everyone in his path! Beck never follows a court order, not even probation. He has a court ordered Breathalyzer in one of his many vehicles, oh it’s in the one he doesn’t drive! With all the money he has embezzled through Dineen Trucking, he could of had the piles crushed and hauled off by now. Do you have any idea how much cash has gone through his dirty hands? He pays many employees cash. He owes the landlords thousands in back rent. He owes taxes well into triple digits. Beck is narcissistic and you are right he has snubbed his nose at the city. Beck has a philosophy, you owe people or companies so much money they have no choice but to hold on and enjoy the ride. Ask his many attorneys how much they are owed! In the meantime, enjoy the growing mountain Mr. Beck has bestowed upon you.
BrokeBeckMountain served Eviction Notice, now who will clean up the mountain?? The City of Upland?
Who served the notice? Why is he being evicted?
Ahhhhh… the clean up! Now this will be good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V56Ko1K9NwQ
Okay ACU. Tell us all how it REALLY is.
Blame Beck’s problems on Thouvenell and Mendenhall.
ACU vomit, I didn’t blame them for anything that involves Beck. The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals did. Go cry to the justices.
Another thought Vomit, you could cry to the city leaders who settled out of court with Beck, since so many seem so irate with him.
You’d think the City would have fought Beck being the piece of garbage some claim he is.
Pretty bad when a guy like Beck walks away with $350K plus attorney’s fees being a convicted felon.
If I was Marty and Jeff, I’d be embarassed that a pile o dung like Beck made me look bad in the eyes of Federal Justices and a public transcript of their opinion floating around for public viewing.
Just saying!!!
ACU – The City paid off Beck because the Mayor and/or Councilmembers had their hands in the settlement. Beck should have been thrown in jail at the time of his drunk rant and threats to Thouvenenell and Mendenhall. The Upland PD got played by their own City. Get your s&#@ straight ACU.
Okay Vomit. Glad you straighten out the record after all this time.
Well I guess Marty or Jeff should have arrested Beck then and there. Again a failure on their part or a simple oversight?
But you obviously missed the fact it was a Superior Court Judge who dismissed the other case against Beck, the threatening public official one. I guess the Judge must have been corrupt too
I am so glad a unknown blogger has more details than the court record.
Hey Chief Antonucci, how’s things going? The truth catching up to you? What goes around, comes around! Maybe if you didn’t lie about everything you would be a good Chief! But none the less, your lies are catching up to you, how does it feel to be caught in so many lies? What lies are you going to make up to get out of this one? By now the City sees threw you.
OK you got my attention again. ACU, didn’t we have this same discussion a couple months ago? We all have more details than what was in that Circuit Court opinion. If all the details were in there it would have been a different outcome. JP didn’t want to deal with it. He wanted to settle. The PD did not.
Why is this still an issue? Let’s find something more important to beat to death now. Like Bob Cable trying to subvert the fire department in the background and use his new pawn, Debbie Stone and the fire haters on this site to get his own wife in there as the new Chief.
@My2Cents – Did you know our group put in an official complaint of misconduct against Antonucci and his fire inspector? Fraudulent misrepresentation! But yet the City ignores the facts and so far has continued business as usual. Same old Upland! But this time if they don’t do anything, it is going to bite them in the rear! Kind of like JP. Can you say DA and FBI if nothing is done by the City! They need to do something to get ahead of this. They no longer have plausible deniablity!
@lutz- I did hear about that. It will be interesting to see how this goes. I am sure you got their attention. You are tenacious. I will say that you have a good case that people did not know about the Chief’s past. It sounds like your rant against the tiller has finally garnered some teeth.
Your list of demands is a bit pretentious. I was as shocked by them as I was the allegations. You can make your claims but you don’t get to make demands like that especially who they should promote to replace the Chief. Sounds like Bob Cable is pulling your strings. You’re starting to sound as bad as the system and people you claim you are fighting. If you want a better Fire Department, nepotism in any form should not be a part of the solution.
Mr. Lutz:
The city of Upland officials should not pursue unless you are willing to identify yourself. That is how the process works, this badgering is unacceptable (to me and the Honorable Ray Musser) and you have no credibility when you communicate this way, this is not Watergate. You sound more and more like a disgruntled employee or former employee who was passed on a promotion or worse yet, a spouse of an current or former employee.
@My2Cents – It was not a list of demands. It is just required actions if you go by the policies and procedures already in place within the City of Upland. Cable is the only one qualified to step up to Chief. So it is just the natural progression of things that Cable would move to Fire Chief. Our group could really care less who the Fire Chief is, as long as he/she is honest and knows what they are doing. Antonucci has to go, that is what we have been advocating. We don’t really care who takes the Chief’s position as long as they are qualified, honest and does the right things for Upland.
@Mcnutjob – You are the problem not the solutuion. Just because we remain anonymous, does that make our complaints and the facts any less viable? The truth is the truth. How does the truth change because we wish to remain anonymous? Here is the thing, I personally like the “Honorable Ray Musser”, but he needs to pull his head out of the sand on this issue. Ray needs to quit playing politics and start doing what is best for Upland. This corruption that has been exposed about Antonucci and the fire inspector is very serious and needs to be dealt with, not ignored. You call it badgering, we call it illuminating! Now that the light has finally been turned on, all the cockroaches are trying to scurry back into the dark! Mcnutjob, become part of the solution not remain part of the problem! Denial, denial, denial, ignore, ignore, ignore! The Upland way! But as Debbie Stone said, “Things are changing” Here Upland try something new: Acknowledge, correct and press on. Integrity, integrity, integrity!
Hey Mcnutjob, I see you are using your real identity? The process? What process? Upland’s process is to do nothing until forced or embarrassed into doing something. I know a bunch of theses ladies and gentlemen, thier jobs are at risk if thier identities were ever to come out. It’s called retaliation, is that the process of Upland you are talking about? Get off your high horse! Obviously you and the “Honorable (I would have worded it differently) Ray Musser” are going to have to change. The country is FedUp with government and the way it is being abused and manipulated! I know who you are Mcnutjob, sitting up thier with Ray.
Oh by the way, Mcnutjob, how proud of your Fire Chief are you now?
McNut, you should have directed your commentary to Vomit. It really doesn’t matter who wanted to settle and who didn’t.
It didn’t matter that Beck was a convicted felon, a drunkard, an asshole or anything else. NONE of that was mentioned by lawyers for the City, nor was it mentioned in the Courts opinion.
The opinion of the 9th Circuit, and comments from the Superior Court Judge WERE scathing as to what really happened. AND the comments were directed specifically at Thouvenell, then Mendenhall, then the DA’s office.
Maybe not in your world, but I’ll take those comments to the bank, before an annonymous blogger.
Put that case together with everything else that has gone on in Upland, I’d say the City if still FUBAR as of right now.
I’ll beat the dead horse anytime I choose.
Mcnutjob, you are a real Mcnut! Why is it when something you guys don’t like comes up, it is always disgruntled or former employee or now a spouse of a current or former employee? Why do you always try dismissing the issues as former or disgruntled employees? You need to ask, is it the truth? Not, is this from a former or disgruntled employee, because if it is the truth, who cares where it came from!!!!! Now do your job!!!
Mr. Mcnutjob,
Maybe if you would have done your job right the first time, none of this would be happening now. Other people have said what I wanted to say, but I will let you know this. You say this is not Watergate, have talked to your Honorable Ray Musser and current City Manager about the closed door deals they were making before JP resigned and even before Quincey was put on Admin Leave? Yes Mr. Mcnutjob, deals were cut behind cloed doors before the powers to be were in power. Sounds kind of like Watergate huh? And tell me what process was in place for that?
Go get them Anonymous and City Worker!
Mayor Barney Good Job on your youtube! The sequel should include an angle from the Lowe’s side of the field. Better yet, go for an interview with the property owners!!!!
@Lutz – So as long as it’s all just suggestions and recomendations, here is what should be done. Cables wife needs to retire as she planned. Just sayin. Bring in an outside hired gun to be the axe man, clean up all the dissent and fire all the unhappy mugs breeding low moral and get them back to work. That would be a better course of action.
In fact, Dunn would go a long way if he did that in every department.
BrokeBeckMountain:
Gotta love the video! Who are the property owners of BrokeBeckMountain? Dineen Trucking? Cables? Mark my words: THE CITY WILL BE FORCED TO CLEAN UP BECK’S DUMP. Talk about a crock!
Okie dokie. This just in… the property where the dump pile is, is currenlty owned by Bongiovanni family. Request for title report and City docs underway. Dineen Trucking (Pat and Jack) rented the property from Dewey Cable: 1284 Airport Drive, Upland, CA / Parcel 1006-331-17-P001 Beck bought Dineen Trucking. Tax rolls say that the “Billed owner” is Dineen Trucking – it does not represent that they are the “property” owners http://www.mytaxcollector.com/trPropInfo_CurrentTaxes.aspx?parcel=100633117P001 In fact, oddly, it shows 0% http://www.mytaxcollector.com/trPropInfo_OwnerHistory.aspx?parcel=100633117P001
Rumor dept: Beck is back in jail and awaiting trial for drugs.
update: The Tax rolls indicate that the Dineens are the land owners…this could be a problem for the Dineens and may now open the city up to more litigation if in fact the property owners were not notified of the illegal dumping of Beck and if the city was required to notify them.
Time for a drink. Meet you at Eden East. Make it a double!
If you see JP there tell em’ hi for me.
BUONISSIMO! On Fact(s) checks! Released “prison overcrowding” Had to make room for more incoming Upland crooks!